Tournament Discussion

See how the 1st tournament was decided!
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fsw
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Tournament Discussion

Post by fsw »

Well the 1st tournament has come to a close with Mr. Mxyzptlk as the winner and I welcome feedback and discussion about the tournament.

What did you think of the tournament? Should we do more tournaments, if so, what kind of tournament? What did you like about the tournament and what would you change in future tournaments?

My thought is to run the most powerful tournament yearly with Mr. Mxyzptlk being the returning champion in the next tournament. I would have the next tournament start in August so it would end around the same time as this one did next year.

This tournament lacked structure so I would propose the following structure for the tournament next year if people think holding an annual most powerful tournament is a good idea:
All contestants would be at their peak powerlevels excluding supplemental boosts like Phoenix force or Infinity Gauntlet.
All battles would be one on one with no assistance from allies.
All battles would start in an environment that is evenly balanced towards both contestants but there would be the opportunity for either to lure the other to a location that gives them an advantage.
All battles would be until death, knockout, surrender, or judges decision at end of time.
All ties would result in neither person advancing which would allow someone to have a bye in the next round.
Contestants would not have any time to prepare for their first round but would have 2 weeks to prepare for their opponent in advancing rounds.
Contestants would be picked by CK members with each CK member allowing to enter one person in the tournament and will be able to change their pick at any time before the start of the tournament.
Bracketing would be alternating from top and bottom of the list to pair up contestants so any byes in the 1st round would come from the middle of the list.

If we do a second annual tournament, I will start the pick for contestants with Beyonder. So this would have Mr. Mxyzptlk and Beyonder so far in the touranment.
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Post by QuickBen »

I think it would be fun to do another tournament. I enjoyed this one but like you said it lacked structure. For the some of the contestants(Batman for example) environment and preparation time could make make a huge difference.

In the last tournament Batman was up against Lucifer. If Batman had time to prepare he could have learned of Lucifers weaknesses (in certain dimensions he is powerless and much of his supernatural power depends upon possession of his angelic wings,) and would have more of a fighting chance.

I liked to think of the battles as taking place in a comic story as opposed to picturing the contestants in an arena and having a ref go 1,2,3, fight! I find the latter rather dull because the winner is simply the contestant with the stronger power levels. Where as with the former as a voter you really have to think about the contestants and what they are capable of ( this also makes for more interesting discussion )

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Post by fsw »

Its been over a month since the tournament ended and the only feedback I have gotten was from QuickBen. I know we had a decent amount voting in the tournament and your feedback would be appreciated.
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Re: Tournament Discussion

Post by Zur-En-Arrh »

I like ben's idea,but then it will become a rpg.Is that possible?It seems to me difficult and requires a lot of time and preperation.
No matter what format you choose,the drafts should be more fair,at least the first round.For example thanos vs Iron Man and bullseye vs doomsday were totally uneven

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Re: Tournament Discussion

Post by CactusFunk »

dimkask wrote:the drafts should be more fair,at least the first round.For example thanos vs Iron Man and bullseye vs doomsday were totally uneven
Just because they were uneven doesn't mean they were unfair. Iron Man and Bullseye are clearly not the most powerful and were bound to get knocked out at some stage. Nothing is more fair than random anyway.
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Post by Lee Kirby Oswald »

judges decision at end of time.
On what basis would the judges mark a contest? And how long would the bouts last (in fighting time, not voting time)?
All ties would result in neither person advancing which would allow someone to have a bye in the next round.
I prefer the system used in the first tournament, whereby both characters advanced. Excluding both could exclude the most powerful character and allow a lesser power to win the tournament on a bye. If they can't both go forward, how about choosing one on the toss of a coin?
Bracketing would be alternating from top and bottom of the list to pair up contestants so any byes in the 1st round would come from the middle of the list.
To make the tournament less predictable, I would suggest a making a new draw for each round.

It might be worth considering alternatives to a knockout structure. If each member only nominates one character, it might be feasible to run the tournament as a round robin. Alternatively, how about the Swiss system, which is somewhere between a knockout and a round robin.

I'd like to nominate One-Above-All.

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Post by CactusFunk »

On what basis would the judges mark a contest? And how long would the bouts last (in fighting time, not voting time)?
I think we just assume it's till death or surrender, but if you really don't think that either is 'more powerful', then you can imagine it goes to a judges vote that would be based on things like strenth, style, agility, etc.
Excluding both could exclude the most powerful character and allow a lesser power to win the tournament on a bye. If they can't both go forward, how about choosing one on the toss of a coin?
I do think one should go forward; not two and definately not zero. Has anyone got any better ideas than toss of a coin?
If each member only nominates one character, it might be feasible to run the tournament as a round robin. Alternatively, how about the Swiss system, which is somewhere between a knockout and a round robin.
Can you explain how these both would work?

Are we definately only allowed to nominate one each? Coz I've got 3 in mind! Galactus, Aegis & Tenebrous.
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Re:

Post by Spaced »

CactusFunk wrote:
Excluding both could exclude the most powerful character and allow a lesser power to win the tournament on a bye. If they can't both go forward, how about choosing one on the toss of a coin?
I do think one should go forward; not two and definately not zero. Has anyone got any better ideas than toss of a coin?
How about a count back system totalling up votes from previous rounds? Admittedly wouldn't work for the first round though.
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Post by Lee Kirby Oswald »

In a round robin tournament all entrants fight one another. For example if there a 7 entrants, there would be 7 rounds of three fights until all combinations have fought. For each fight, the winner scores 1, the loser 0. If a draw, they would both get 0.5. The winner would be the one with the highest total score.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_tournament

In a Swiss tournament there are a fixed number of rounds (probably the same number as a knockout tournament would use) and in each round contestants are drawn against entrants with the same running total (or as similar as possible), so instead of being knocked out, the loser of a fight would be paired against a weaker opponent in the next round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament

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Post by impulse »

I was thinking perhaps we could do a tournament for each publisher, then taking maybe the final four from each and then do a mixed battle?
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Post by fsw »

Lee Kirby Oswald wrote:On what basis would the judges mark a contest?
I was thinking the one that seemed more dominant at time
Lee Kirby Oswald wrote:And how long would the bouts last (in fighting time, not voting time)?
I was thinking of matching fight time to vote time but the more I think about it, I don't see why they have to be matched.

Round Robin would be good if we have few enough contestants but am not sure how bracketing would be for Swiss style especially since I wanted to include prep time of some sort at least after the first round.
Spaced wrote:How about a count back system totalling up votes from previous rounds?
I like this idea a lot but the first round is still possible risk and there could still be ties even with this but definitely less likely.
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Post by CactusFunk »

impulse wrote:I was thinking perhaps we could do a tournament for each publisher, then taking maybe the final four from each and then do a mixed battle?
I like this idea, however if the three most powerful all happened to be in DC for example then two would get kicked out in favour of a possibly weaker foe from Dark Horse or Image.
Spaced wrote:How about a count back system totalling up votes from previous rounds? Admittedly wouldn't work for the first round though.
We should definately use this for every round after the first.

LKO, both styles of tournament could be worth a try, but don't you think a tournament decided by a fight to the death is a little more satisfying than winning because a person had more points?
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Post by Lee Kirby Oswald »

All three methods have their pros and cons. The round robin and swiss have the advantage that they sort all entrants into approximate order from strongest to weakest, whereas the knockout only identifies the stongest (the second strongest could have been eliminated by the winner in a round before the final). The round robin is only suitable for a small number of contestants, and can be anti-climactic if a runaway leader builds up aan unassailable lead before the final round. The swiss needs more work in pairing the contenders for each round (done by having a card for each entrant and updating it with their running total and which other contenders they've faced, then randomly pairing entrants within each pool of running totals subject to them not already having faced each other, starting from the top and bottom pools and working inwards towards the middle, promoting or relegating a player from the next pool if a pool contains an odd number).

Please could you explain what you mean by prep time, fsw?

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Post by fsw »

Contestants would not have any time to prepare for their first round but would have 2 weeks to prepare for their opponent in advancing rounds.
This is the prep I was referring to...If fight time and vote time were matched, this would be a real problem but I still have trouble figuring out how it could make some sort of storyline sense to have prep time in a Swiss tournament since the brackets are not predetermined.
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Post by Lee Kirby Oswald »

You could say the contestants have x amount of time to prepare for their next fight once the draw for that round has been made. The prep time doesn't need to match the time between the draw being made and the start of voting, which could be immediate.

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