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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:11 am 
Knight
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:16 am 
Duke
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Probably of limited interest but what the hell - here's a couple of sites for our local Magic group:

Magic the Gathering Cumbria on Facebook

Magic the Gathering Cumbria on Twitter

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:34 pm 
Squire
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Got a nasty elf deck om MTGO and also a decent Emperor deck. Just wish i had more time to play it :(

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:13 pm 
Duke
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Wizards've set up a bunch of "Learn to Play" videos now and an interactive demo to download.

Magic the Gathering - Learn to Play

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:56 am 
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I also play (sometimes, not enough time, nor recent cards), but only with real cards.

Mayor decks: some white weenie (with mother of runes), countertim, and stupid red burn


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:25 am 
Knight
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i never got into magic the gathering and tbh i never knew knew any geeky or nerdy people, so ive had limited exposure.

back as a kid i collected pokemon cards, just like anybody did who is my age, there was a few people who brought magic cards in but at the time i saw it as a copycat and never fell for it.

a year past and then yu-gi-oh was the big thing but i was entering puberty and the concept was considered childish with my peers, however i secretly played with my younger brother some of the pre-constructed decks and had a great deal of fun with them. by this time magic was a long forgotten memory, for which i regret.

the pokemon TCG was very bad and didn't transition well from a, well constructed and fun, RPG. yu-gi-oh however had a lot more depth, due to it originally being a card based tv show, and for that reason i played the game but never got into the collection aspect.

however, this topic has spark a great deal of interest in magic and ive been researching it, ie reading alot of wikipedia pages, pages on the wizards website and watching numerous youtube videos from the wizards youtube channel teaching the mechanics of the game.

i must say it looks like amazingly deep TCG and very fun, but i have a few questions:

whats the deal with the early expansions? are they tournament legal? are they out of print? why aren't they in block expansions? is the "homeland" expansion held with much value, either for collectors or players?

from what i can deduce there are alot of overpowered/cheep cards in the early expansions does this mean does this mean certain types of players avoid them and does that mean they are limited to the pros and collectors?

are there any evolutionary type creatures or fusion creatures? if so, where do they appear? if not, why do they not exist? because when i played yu-gi-oh or the pokemon TCG's those were always the most fun and exciting part.

is there any chance they will introduce more colours?

on a separate note magic reminds me of warhammer, another game i have virtually no clue about, is warhammer relevant anymore?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:23 pm 
Duke
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Right I'll give it a go.

psyco wrote:
whats the deal with the early expansions? are they tournament legal? are they out of print? why aren't they in block expansions? is the "homeland" expansion held with much value, either for collectors or players?

The block system didn't appear until a few years into the life of Magic, when the game was becoming more structured & official tournament play was being introduced.

All sets are tournament legal depending on the format. The earliest expansions are usually only legal in the Vintage and Legacy constructed formats and in limited formats.

Sets go out of print pretty quickly, nowadays they normally only have an initial print run with some getting a second run if demand is there.

psyco wrote:
from what i can deduce there are alot of overpowered/cheep cards in the early expansions does this mean does this mean certain types of players avoid them and does that mean they are limited to the pros and collectors?

For tournament formats using the older cards there are banned (can't use the cards at all) & restricted (can only have one copy of the card in your deck) lists which take care of the overpowered or bizarre cards.

In casual games though, it's normally house rules so anything goes.

psyco wrote:
are there any evolutionary type creatures or fusion creatures? if so, where do they appear? if not, why do they not exist? because when i played yu-gi-oh or the pokemon TCG's those were always the most fun and exciting part.

I've never played either of those two but a quick Wiki gives me an idea of what those terms are and the answer is the same for both.

There are sort of "evolutionary" creatures in Magic. There is a set of creatures in the new set with the "Level Up" ability. You can pay additional mana once the creature is in play to increase it's level giving it increased power & toughness and additional abilities.

There are sort of "fusion" functions in Magic but not exactly the same as in Yu-Gi-Oh. I'd guess the most similar thing would be the spell Polymorph - when you play the spell you sacrifice a creature in play to put a creature from your deck into play.

psyco wrote:
is there any chance they will introduce more colours?

It's been rumoured many times but I can't see it happening myself (if it does I wouldn't be too happy about it).

psyco wrote:
on a separate note magic reminds me of warhammer, another game i have virtually no clue about, is warhammer relevant anymore?

Yep, Warhammer is still going strong. There's the WH Fantasy battle and WH40K sci-fi wargaming plus numerous spin-offs based on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:14 am 
Knight
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Spaced wrote:
Sets go out of print pretty quickly, nowadays they normally only have an initial print run with some getting a second run if demand is there.


wow, thats pretty brutal. i would have liked to have played with some of the older keywords, though presumably they have a short life so that they have higher value to collectors? also i guess the full library is available to the online game?

how long approximately is the initial run?

Spaced wrote:
There are sort of "fusion" functions in Magic but not exactly the same as in Yu-Gi-Oh. I'd guess the most similar thing would be the spell Polymorph - when you play the spell you sacrifice a creature in play to put a creature from your deck into play.


any creature?.. is there a way i can look up any card online by name to find out what they do? to avoid further embarrassments, like this, down the line.

Spaced wrote:
It's been rumoured many times but I can't see it happening myself (if it does I wouldn't be too happy about it).


as a casual observer i cant see why it would upset you, care to elaborate? is it something about messing with the original format, or that the booster packs will become more diluted with cards you cant use in your deck, or something else all together?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:37 am 
Duke
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psyco wrote:
wow, thats pretty brutal. i would have liked to have played with some of the older keywords, though presumably they have a short life so that they have higher value to collectors? also i guess the full library is available to the online game?

how long approximately is the initial run?

The initial print runs are one offs but are pretty big (the major online dealers will stock & open 1000s of boxes) so there's no immediate shortage on new sets. You might struggle to find reasonably priced sealed product from older sets but single cards & bulk lots are easy to find.

Haven't played online for a while but they have been retroactively releasing older sets alongside current ones. On MtGO though they have "availability windows" in place of print runs - boosters can only be bought for a certain period of time and after that are no longer available from Wizards (doesn't stop third parties buying in bulk & making a profit over time).

psyco wrote:
any creature?.. is there a way i can look up any card online by name to find out what they do? to avoid further embarrassments, like this, down the line.

Well, bit of a bad explanation on my part. You reveal cards from the top of your library until you hit a creature card then put that one into play. It's fairly easy to design a deck so that you always get a bomb creature into play though.

Yep, there is an online database that is part of the wizards site that contains every card (real & digital): http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx

psyco wrote:
as a casual observer i cant see why it would upset you, care to elaborate? is it something about messing with the original format, or that the booster packs will become more diluted with cards you cant use in your deck, or something else all together?

Adding another colour would dilute the card pool available in limited tournaments (esp. Sealed Deck where you are only allowed to built your deck from the cards you get from 6 random boosters) making it even more of a "whoever opens the bomb rare, wins" format.

Also I could see tons of erratas being needed for older cards to make sure they encompass a new colour. They already did this kind of thing when streamlining creature types a couple of years ago (in one fell swoop they changed approx 1250 cards so they are no longer played as they are printed) and it'd be just another headache.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:38 am 
Knight
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Spaced wrote:
Haven't played online for a while but they have been retroactively releasing older sets alongside current ones. On MtGO though they have "availability windows" in place of print runs - boosters can only be bought for a certain period of time and after that are no longer available from Wizards (doesn't stop third parties buying in bulk & making a profit over time).


now thats crafty. i played a desktop version of yu-gi-oh years back, it wasn't a very pleasant experience the deck building was somewhat painfully slow, it had good filtering capabilities but no way to create groups of cards to save and refer back to for adding and experimenting with later down the line. is the interface good for magic online?

Spaced wrote:
Adding another colour would dilute the card pool available in limited tournaments (esp. Sealed Deck where you are only allowed to built your deck from the cards you get from 6 random boosters) making it even more of a "whoever opens the bomb rare, wins" format.


do you play many limited tournaments?

Spaced wrote:
Also I could see tons of erratas being needed for older cards to make sure they encompass a new colour. They already did this kind of thing when streamlining creature types a couple of years ago (in one fell swoop they changed approx 1250 cards so they are no longer played as they are printed) and it'd be just another headache.


after you get used to it though the end result is better, isn't it? or was it just a complete error of judgement? i guess there is no way of telling if a card has been altered unless you look it up on that gatherer thing, i can see that being a headache if you need to look up 60+ of your favourite cards and then forgetting some minor details. but would they not reprint them?

on a side note, im thinking of getting the Garruk vs. Liliana duel deck just to get a taster, would you recommend anything different?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:38 am 
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used to play this game with my neighbours when we were younger. we used a common deck, thus everyone would draw cards from the same pile. then everyone grew up and moved to other things..


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:44 am 
Duke
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psyco wrote:
now thats crafty. i played a desktop version of yu-gi-oh years back, it wasn't a very pleasant experience the deck building was somewhat painfully slow, it had good filtering capabilities but no way to create groups of cards to save and refer back to for adding and experimenting with later down the line. is the interface good for magic online?

The current MtGO sotware does what it's supposed to do very well, it's just looks terrible. I much prefer the previous version, was a lot cleaner & laid out better.

psyco wrote:
do you play many limited tournaments?

I hardly play in any tournaments these days. I'm the only Tournament Organiser in the area with a high enough level to to host the major events & have to keep organising a minimum number of other events to maintain that level.

I do try to organise at least 2 limited events per month (usually booster drafts) as there are a core of players up here that really like the format.

psyco wrote:
after you get used to it though the end result is better, isn't it? or was it just a complete error of judgement? i guess there is no way of telling if a card has been altered unless you look it up on that gatherer thing, i can see that being a headache if you need to look up 60+ of your favourite cards and then forgetting some minor details. but would they not reprint them?

It's not a huge problem provided I have the laptop handy with all the errata on it but it can be a ball ache when trying to teach someone new the game.

"Right, I play this card to do this."
"You can play that card but it doesn't do that."
"What? But that what it says on the card."
"Yes, but that was changed 3 years ago, now it does this."
"Oh, Okay. I still have mana so I'll play this card as well."
"You can play that card too but it doesn't do that."
and so on...

They do reprint some cards with new terminology in the annual Core Sets but there are far more cards in existence with "old wording" than "new wording" on them. Of course this isn't a problem with the online version - every card has the current wording as they can just change them with patches & updates.

psyco wrote:
on a side note, im thinking of getting the Garruk vs. Liliana duel deck just to get a taster, would you recommend anything different?

The Duel Decks are worth their money in terms of the cards you get but as a taster you'd probably be better off trying a couple of the Intro Packs for the new set (which is released in two weeks). The decks themselves are geared to a newer player and contain current cards legal in every format.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:36 pm 
Knight
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one final set of questions;

the newer intro decks are multi-coloured, poly-coloured(?) dual-coloured(?), ive seen that this is the normal way decks are constructed, personally i would like to have seen mono-coloured decks because as a beginner/observer, it would be more useful to me, i assume, that having a mono-coloured deck would give me a better grasp of its underlying tactics. is my observation true? if so why did the wizards abandon this mono-coloured approach?

also, ive noticed that there are "recommended" colour combinations or colours that compliment each other, such as those found on the intro packs, so i am wondering is there any tactical disadvantage in using "non-sanctioned" colour harmonics?.. i understand there are definite disadvantages with a tri-coloured, or more, 60 card decks.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:29 pm 
Duke
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psyco wrote:
one final set of questions;

Keep the questions coming if you've got them. Happy to answer if I can :)

psyco wrote:
the newer intro decks are multi-coloured, poly-coloured(?) dual-coloured(?), ive seen that this is the normal way decks are constructed, personally i would like to have seen mono-coloured decks because as a beginner/observer, it would be more useful to me, i assume, that having a mono-coloured deck would give me a better grasp of its underlying tactics. is my observation true? if so why did the wizards abandon this mono-coloured approach?

A bit of basics: every year there is one Core set (lots of basic building block type of cards) and three Block sets (more advanced cards with new mechanics). The Intro Decks for the Core sets are always mono coloured and the Block sets are two coloured.

If you want some decks for beginners then go for the Core Set Intro Decks, easy to understand & lots of cards that can be used in other decks at a later date.

If you're happy to try things a bit more advanced then go for one of the Block Intro Decks. That being said, the Block decks are all based around a specific mechanic from that set so all the cards in it are complimentary.

psyco wrote:
also, ive noticed that there are "recommended" colour combinations or colours that compliment each other, such as those found on the intro packs, so i am wondering is there any tactical disadvantage in using "non-sanctioned" colour harmonics?.. i understand there are definite disadvantages with a tri-coloured, or more, 60 card decks.

All through Magic there has been the ethos that "friendly" colours on the colour circle (ones that are next to each other) are more complimentary (going White - Blue - Black - Red - Green and round again). There have been some sets that have broken this unwritten rule though and given bonuses to other colours to the point where now you can pretty much take cards from any colour and make a viable deck from them. The main issue is always the mana base - making sure you have enough lands of the correct types to produce the coloured mana you need.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:00 am 
Knight
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Spaced wrote:
Keep the questions coming if you've got them. Happy to answer if I can :)


the "advanced" rule book, thats the 171 pages long one, how are you supposed to use it?

for instance, i used "Rise from the Grave" to summon my brothers sacrificed "Plated Slagwurm", due to card limit restrictions, we didn't really know what do to but i argued that "Deathgreeters" ability wasn't active while it is in the graveyard or library my brother agreed so i won the game.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... he%20Grave
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... 20Slagwurm
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... athgreeter

theres been many other disagreements too, generally surrounding "Drudge Skeletons", "Wall of Bone" and "Twisted Abomination" regenerate ability. but thats mainly because its crazy powerful, are the regenerate costs always that low?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... bomination
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... 0of%20Bone
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... 0Skeletons

lastly, have you seen this? pretty ironic considering i asked if they had evolutionary creatures a few posts ago, you dont get new art or a creature name, but the effect is the same.

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Last edited by psyco on Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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